VOLUSIA FOREVER ADVISORY COMMITTEE
Minutes
Wednesday, November 5, 2003
3:30p.m. - 5:30p.m.
Deland Regional library
130 East Howry Avenue, Auditorium, 1st Floor, DeLand, Fl 32720

Also in Attendance

Carrie Stewart, Chair, called the meeting to order at 3:34 p.m.

Roll Call
Carrie Stewart, Chair, instructed the Recording Secretary to call the roll of the Members in attendance, in which seven (7) Members were present. Members Robert Williams and Linda White were recorded as an Excused Absence.

Approval of Minutes
Carrie Stewart, Chair, called for a motion to approve the September 17, 2003, Minutes. Member Gordon Kipp made a motion to approve the September 17, 2003, Minutes as written. The motion was seconded and approved by unanimous voice vote.

Carrie Stewart asked for introductions before starting with the business part of the meeting. The board members introduced themselves. Public attendees included Bob Guido with the Trust of Public Lands, Tallahassee; Sam Roth, representative for RBD Limited; and William Santizo from Guatemala, visiting with Member Anne Hallum.

Discussion Topics
Rob Walsh distributed spreadsheets showing the progress the committee has made thus far with the properties that have been purchased, along with the funding partners. Maps are being made of the properties acquired and should be ready for the next meeting.

Phil Maroney asked how much total revenue has been collected.

Rob Walsh answered that approximately $6 million has been collected through 2003 and approximately $4.2 million is anticipated for 2004.

Carrie Stewart asked to clarify why there is an increase of $1.2 million over the originally anticipated $3 million a year.

Rob Walsh added that $2.5 million was collected in the first year, then in 2003 $3.7 million was collected and for 2004 it is projected that approximately $4.1 to $4.2 million will be collected.

Frank Gummey interjected that the first year paid off the previous bond issue, so the full millage was not collected.

Presentation and Discussion of Previously Approved County Council Project - Bayou Bay Property
Rob Walsh started the presentation to the committee by reviewing the information provided in the committee's packets, including the resolution with the information on the property. Once the committee approves this proposed acquisition, it is anticipated that County staff will be requesting the approval from the County Council on November 13, 2003. This property was initially within the established boundaries of the Spruce Creek Preserve and an application for funding was submitted to the State, which was approved. Subsequently, the property owner wrote the County a letter stating they were not interested in participating in the program, so it was removed from the acquisition list. The owner then petitioned the County to rezone the property for a development. Because the County did not have a willing seller, the Volusia Forever Program could not step in, as the program is based on willing sellers. Because of these issues, the Trust for Public Lands (TPL) stepped in and contracted with the owner for the acquisition of the property. It is TLP’s desire to immediately resell the property to the County and have it added to the Spruce Creek Preserve.

Doug Weaver explained that Mr. Spano, the appraiser for the Trust for Public Lands (TPL), has appraised this property for $2.6 million. TPL has a contract to purchase the property for $2.5 million. The County has had the property appraised by two (2) independent appraisers; Pomeroy was $2.525 million and Sutte was $2.275 million. County staff intends to file another Florida Communities Trust (FCT) application on this property next year and has done a self-score with input from Bob Guido and other staff at TPL. County staff believes it will score reasonably well. The intent is to receive a grant reimbursement of 40 to 50% of the cost.

Staff will also consult with the Division of State Lands subsequent to submitting an FCT application. This property has been on the fast track because TPL has a contract as of last week and are slated to close December 19, 2003, with Bayou Bay. Subsequently, the County is positioned to close January 30, 2004, with TPL.

Rob Walsh stated that if we don’t get FCT funding this year we have 2 years to seek reimbursement and we reapply the following year.

Doug Weaver stated that TPL is the recognized expert on helping to guide these projects through the Florida Communities Trust system and staff will continue to work with Bob Guido and his staff.

Phil Maroney asked that when this project was submitted to FCT the first time if there was a designated dollar amount that they thought they could acquire it for.

Rob Walsh answered in the negative and explained that it was submitted as a package deal with the entire Spruce Creek Preserve. There were no dollars associated with the property.

Doug Weaver interjected that by the time the County got to work on the Spruce Creek properties, the Kaye property took a substantial amount of the money, which left very little for the other properties.

Bob Guido commented that in regards to the FCT scoring, two (2) years ago it was the second highest scoring project among all the projects that were submitted. It scored very well and it is anticipated that it would score well again.

Doug Weaver commented that staff tries to do the self-scoring conservatively and hadn’t gone through every aspect of the application, but felt comfortable that it would score well.

Bob Guido stated that he thought it scored about 155 points. It was a conservative score and didn’t try to reach for extra points. With the projects submitted to FCT this year, 140 points was the cut off for funding, so if it was submitted this year with 155 points it would be funded.

Rob Walsh asked Bob Guido that when it was scored, were there extra points given for pre acquisition.

Bob Guido said he was not sure whether or not the 10 points for pre acquisition had been added in.

Reid Hughes asked where the review report was.

Rob Walsh stated that staff did not complete a review report because of it being on the fast track.

Reid Hughes asked why it was on the fast track.

Doug Weaver stated that there is a deal on the table and didn’t want it to fall through.

Reid Hughes questioned why this property was being purchased in this manner, with TPL being the holding entity for a buyer (i.e., the County). He stated that if the County didn’t agree to buy it, then TPL wouldn’t exercise its option to purchase it.

Bob Guido stated that TPL is not a brokerage organization. It doesn’t go out and look for properties to buy, and then try to find a need. TLP got involved because they had been contacted by Clay Henderson to assist with acquiring this property for conservation purposes.

Reid Hughes stated that he was a strong advocate for Spruce Creek Preserve and is familiar with this property. He added that the committee has a very strong responsibility to recognize that the program has a policy, which stipulates that unless there is a funding partner they generally don't get into these projects. There is not a funding partner on this one.

Doug Weaver stated that it is reasonably calculated that there will be a funding partner. The resolution states that Volusia Forever can acquire a property and then seek a funding partner, as was done with the Garritty and Paul properties. Resolution 2000-155 states that we can complete projects begun under previous land acquisition programs. The reason this one is postured differently is because this property has already been to the County Council. It’s in the Doris Leeper Spruce Creek Preserve. We deemed it appropriate and important to obtain the endorsement of the committee.

Reid Hughes stated that it may be postured differently, but it is an extremely expensive property, is not particularly ecologically significant, and it is not particularly adaptive to recreational uses because it is a very small project. We also have a policy to look at properties of a larger nature. It is not particularly viable to the Spruce Creek Park ecosystem. We can’t buy everything and I am strongly opposed spending $2 million on this kind of project. Secondly, this property owner says he is going to do all this development or he is going down south to do something else. The County has not approved the rezoning and the City of Port Orange has already informed him that they are not going to provide him with water. So, I think that this is a kind of threat that we can take with a grain of salt until it becomes a reality. I don’t think we can base our judgement on the basis of: “I am going to put up some high-rises right away." It is not the type of project that has any particularly enticing adjuncts to a park, and we haven’t even done a review. I think that it is not the kind of project that the County needs to buy and I strongly oppose this despite my friendship with TPL, Bob Guido, and Clay Henderson. I have not heard any reason from anybody why we should buy this for over $2 million. I am not saying it is not worth $2 million. I am saying it is not worth it to us.

Phil Maroney stated that this philosophy is pretty subjective. However, if we had gone through the checklist, I don’t believe there is anything in the checklist that would persuade me from not wanting to go through with it. It is in the preserve and is filling in a portion that is not already conservation land. I don’t like the idea of having islands of development in and amongst conservation lands. TPL is a non-speculative seller. They are not looking to sell it to us and make a premium on it. County staff has recommended approval of the rezoning. I understand what Reid is saying and there are some things about it such as access, etc. that might be more favorable in some situations more so than this one. I feel comfortable based upon staff’s approach and I do think that they do take a conservative approach on things when it comes to our ability for matching funds.

Reid Hughes stated that is not factually a fill-in. The property is located to the east of US 1 and is not adjacent to the park. To the best of my knowledge, it is not in the defined boundaries of the park project.

Doug Weaver stated that it was his understanding the property was in the boundaries of the preserve. However, if it is not, then it can always be added.

Phil Maroney stated that on page one it states it is within the boundaries of the Doris Leeper Spruce Creek Preserve.

Doug Weaver stated we have been through this process before and the property scored high because it is within the boundaries of the preserve. I believe it is in the Preserve, but it can be rechecked.

Reid Hughes stated that his concern was the cost.

Gordon Kipp stated that he is concerned with the alternative. If this deal falls through and the County approves the rezoning then 14 cluster units would be built. That is blight on the whole Preserve and it shouldn’t be allowed to happen. Unfortunately, it is possible that it could and I think that if we could prevent it we would be on the right track.

Phil Maroney stated that it is within the Spruce Creek Preserve and would be filling in a portion of the Preserve that has a high potential for development and two years from now it isn’t going to be $2 million; it is going to be $3 million or more.

Reid Hughes stated that he didn’t think that kind of development would impact the Spruce Creek Preserve. I don’t believe we can buy every piece of property. It is a small piece of property to pay $2.5 million for.

Anne Hallum stated she was concerned with the inconsistency. We talked about this last meeting regarding the requirement to have a funding partner. Frank Gummey recited a section from the resolution that states, “it shall be eligible for a funding partner" before we can put a property on the "A" list. We had 10 acres that would be a good deal and we kept it on the "B" list because we didn’t have a funding partner.

Frank Gummey injected that it stated “or any foreseeable partner."

Doug Weaver stated that he thought there is an ambiguity in the resolution that needed to be straightened out, which will be done next year. There appears to be two funding partners of substance out there, as opposed to others where it was just not as obvious. I believe it would be difficult to present this to you if there weren’t substantial opportunities for a funding partnership.

Reid Hughes asked what that was based on?

Doug Weaver answered that it was based on staff's self-scoring of an FCT application.

Reid Hughes asked if we had talked to Florida Communities Trust about this property?

Doug Weaver stated in the negative and that he didn’t believe they would give us any guidance anyway.

Bob Guido stated that he thought the guidance would be that this property is a phase of a project that was already submitted and scored very well. FCT would also give a strong indication that it would score very well again. Additional points could be attained because of the pre-acquisition.

Doug Weaver stated that one of the staff members spent about a week on this effort and went over every question on the FCT application. This is how we came to the conclusion that it ought to score reasonably well. But, we are certainly not going to say we are in the money. We would have to step out and take whatever risk there is. We would never say to this committee that it is a guarantee.

Phil Maroney inquired as to whether there was an aerial photography of this site and if Harbor Road was platted?

Rob Walsh stated that it is an existing dirt road that dead-ends into the property.

Jo Ann O’Bannon stated that she had worked on the Spruce Creek Preserve for a long time. If this property was not where it is, I might agree with Reid. This is what we are here to do, beyond buying the center part of the County for water recharge. This is just the kind of property I hope that we could save. I believe we stand a very good chance with this funding partner and even if we didn’t, this is the sort of property the County ought to be saving.

Alan Alshouse stated he was familiar with the property and it is a unique and sensitive parcel of land but agreed that the cost is a little higher as well.

Phil Maroney stated that to some degree this piece gets a lot of public attention as it has gone through the rezoning process. I think a segment of the public sees this as a very desirable piece of property from a preservation standpoint. It is not like some of the properties we acquire that do not get that much attention. I think it is a signature piece and I agree with Reid that it is a lot of money on a per acre basis, but I think it is very visible and the public seems to express an interest in it.

Doug Weaver stated he telephoned Bill Gardner and verified this property is within the Doris Leeper Spruce Creek Preserve boundaries. It is in the 2003 DEP booklet on land acquisition and DEP calls it an essential piece of the total project.

Anne Hallum made a motion to put the property on the list to recommend to the County Council for approval.

JoAnn O’Bannon seconded the motion.

Carry Stewart stated it has been moved and seconded and asked for further discussion? Having none a vote was called. The motion was approved six to one, with Reid Hughes dissenting.

Discussion and Determination of Eligibility for Submitted Applications -
RDB Limited Property
Rob Walsh stated that there was one property for determination of eligibility and introduced Mr. Sam Roth, the owner’s representative. The main parcel is 325 acres with water surrounding it. There are also individual lots owned by the same people. They’re contiguous, but they’re all individual lots. The property sits off SR 44 and the St. Johns River and is contiguous to the Lake Woodruff Wildlife Refuge. There is no access to this property except via water. From a funding standpoint the District and the County purchased the tract directly to the north several years ago. It was then added to the Lake Woodruff National Wildlife Refuge. The property meets 7 of the primary criteria of the guidelines for this committee.

Reid Hughes asked if staff had talked to the District about this property.

Rob Walsh answered that staff would not do that until it meets eligibility.

Carry Stewart asked about the little lots on the map.

Rob Walsh stated there is a small subdivision that is off SR 44 just east of the property, and to the southwest is the Boat Show Marina that recently burned.

Reid Hughes asked Sam Roth what the owners were asking for it.

Sam Roth stated it had been appraised at $2,500 per acre.

Alan Alshouse stated that the first thing he noticed about the property is that it doesn’t appear to be developable, as it may be 99% to 100% sovereign lands and it will remain a hardwood swamp and be difficult to timber.

Rob Walsh stated that he told Sam Roth that the committee may not want to deal with the individual parcels because some of the parcels around that area are individually-owned lots and we get into the “holes in the donut” effect. Sam indicated that if we were only interested in the large 325-acre parcel that would be fine with the owners.

Phil Maroney stated he thought the same individual owner owned all the individual lots.

Rob Walsh stated the majority of them are but there are some parcels that other individuals own.

Carrie Stewart asked if we could use the small lot funds to acquire the individual parcels.

Rob Walsh answered in the affirmative.

Reid Hughes asked if the total acreage included the small lots, or are we looking at only the 325 acres? Do you have the agreement from the small lot owners?

Rob Walsh stated no, only the RBD Limited people.

Sam Roth stated that RBD Limited owns 68 of the lots.

Phil Maroney asked 68 out of how many?

Rob Walsh stated 76 or 78 lots.

Sam Roth stated that the property is contiguous to the Lake Woodruff Wildlife Refuge and the owners would approach the U.S. Government to determine if they are interested in acquiring the property.

Anne Hallum made a motion to accept the RBD Limited Property Application as an eligible project.

Reid Hughes seconded the motion.

Carrie Stewart asked for a vote. The motion passed unanimously.

Rob Walsh stated that one of the things staff will do is to check on the sovereign land issue, which could have a direct bearing on this project. There are two (2) other applications on the St. Johns River and the same issue has come up regarding sovereign lands.

Reid Hughes stated that the committee would encourage Sam Roth to contact the U.S. Government, as this should be part of the Wildlife Refuge.

Doug Weaver stated that staff would also talk to the U.S. Government about the potential partnering.

Rob Walsh presented the 2004 calendar that sets the 2004 meeting schedule. Staff recommended canceling December’s meeting. He stated that in January we will present the rest of the applications that have been received for this cycle (July 1, 2003 through December 31, 2003) for determination of eligibility and in March we will do the ranking.

The committee concurred with staff’s recommendation regarding the dates and the plan for the first quarter of 2004 regarding the determination of eligibility and ranking.

Rob Walsh stated that the next meeting would be January 21, 2004, in the DeLand Administration Building, Training Room 1.

Adjournment
Chair Carrie Stewart asked if there was any further business to discuss. Having none the meeting adjourned at 4:30 p.m.