Board Members in
Attendance: Also in Attendance:
Meeting
Called to Order
Reid Hughes,
Chair, called the meeting to order at 2:05p.m.
Indicated an
excused absence for Gordon Kipp.
Roll Call
Reid Hughes,
Chair, we will dispense with the roll call.
Approval of
Minutes
Reid Hughes
asked for additions or corrections to the Minutes from the September 15,
2002, meeting.
Doug Weaver
made a correction to page 4, B. last paragraph. He changed the word “access”
to “direction” to go forward.
Reid Hughes
asked if there were any other corrections or additions to the minutes.
There were none.
Discussion
topics
Reid Hughes
stated
the discussion items were evaluation and ranking to the
eligible applications. There were five new submissions and the original
“B” list and staff indicated that they saw no changes in either
partnership monies or facts regarding these properties. Mr. Hughes
indicated that the procedure would be to go over the 5 new submissions
and to give any committee persons, property owners or citizens the
opportunity to comment on any of the presentations on the “A” or “B”
list. He asked the staff to go over the new submissions.
Rob Walsh passed
out printouts of the “A” list properties of the first cycle. He
stated the “A” list properties would remain on the “A” list
because they are being actively worked on at the present time. They will
not change their positions. He also passed out a map indicating that all
five of the new eligible properties are within the Lake George Wildlife
Area (LGWMA). The first four of the properties will actually expand the
southern boundary of the wildlife management area. The fifth property,
which is the Corbett property, is actually an in-holding property. This
is a property that staff actively went after. Staff contacted 8 to 10 of
these in-holding property owners and of these this was the only one that
submitted an application.
The Kilian and
Mayo properties are on the south boundary of the LGWMA. Harper and
Harrington are the two properties below. Staff recommended that these be
all treated as one project with the caveat that Kilian and Mayo are the
keystone properties. Mr. Walsh passed out the analysis of the historical
and archeological potential of each property.
Carrie Stewart asked
what the meaning of in-holding was.
Rob Walsh stated
that an in-holding was a property within the boundaries of a larger
project that, for whatever reason, was not acquired during the initial
acquisition. They are still in private ownership. Staff is now trying to
fill in the holes of these larger projects.
Staff presented
a Powerpoint presentation of the properties.
1. Mayo Pine
Island
Mayo Pine Island
is 10 acres. It abuts the southern boundary of the Lake George Wildlife
Management Area. The majority of the habitat is flood plain swamp with a
small portion of it being hydric hammock. Bald cypress and Blackgum are
the dominant tree species, which is a very good habitat for the black
bear, an endangered species. A site visit revealed some building debris.
Tom Schofield, the County’s historical/archeological expert, found a
significant fresh water shell midden on the property. He feels this is a
very important archeological site and believes it is eligible for
designation as a significant archeological site as far as the state is
concerned. It is not on the state list at the present time. However, he
feels it is a high priority property with a high probability of
archeological value to it. There is a road that parallels the property,
has good access, and is very heavily wooded and overgrown.
Randy Sleister
stated the management is minimal and primarily limited to cleaning up
the old debris that is around the building site and some minor clean up
along the road.
Reid Hughes
asked about combining the properties together.
Rob Walsh replied
that it is staff’s ultimate goal to acquire all four of the properties
together as “A” properties. He also stated that they would
probably be incorporated into the existing management scheme, as the
county is the property manager at the present time.
Reid Hughes
stated the management is in place with either the state or the county
and the County is not taking on any new management responsibilities.
Richard Schuler
asked if they were to pick all or none or can we pick individual pieces.
Rob Walsh
stated that staff would like to acquire all the properties with Mayo and
Kilian purchased first. It would be more difficult to acquire Harrington
first and not acquire Mayo and Kilian because of the “hole in the
donut” effect. From an acquisition standpoint they would be dealt with
on an individual basis.
Doug Weaver
responded to remember that ranking will be done twice a year and if at
next year no progress has been made, the Committee may drop them down to
the “B” list.
Carrie Stewart
asked that if the Committee were to rank these as a group would they be
submitted to the County Council as 4 parcels or 1 parcel?
Rob Walsh
stated they are still 4 individual pieces of property. They would be
presented in the same manner as are being presented to this committee.
Doug Weaver responded
that this is an informal project and it won’t proceed unless these key
stone pieces are acquired.
Carrie Stewart
asked if there was a limit to the number of properties that are put on
the “A” list?
Doug Weaver
stated No.
Carrie Stewart asked
if the committee could recommend these four and five and others if they
wanted to.
Rob Walsh stated
yes.
Rob Walsh
then went on with the Mayo presentation.
Randy Sleister
described the vegetative communities on this parcel, which is a hammock
area and not dependant upon fire.
Dennis Bayer
stated it looked like a lot of non-native grasses on the property.
A committee
member asked if there was any access to the public on the property.
Rob Walsh
stated that staff had talked about some hiking trails and some wildlife
viewing areas. The property was right off the road with easy access. It
is unclear what the property looks like closer to the lake.
Randy Sleister interjected
that it is believed to be more swamp-like and access would be more
difficult unless a boardwalk was constructed.
Anne Hallum
asked about hazardous waste on this site.
Randy Sleister
stated that hazardous waste was put into the report because of the old
home site. There is a lot of debris and staff is not sure what exactly
is there. Potentially staff believes it is very slight but there is the
potential.
Harper Trust
Rob Walsh
stated that Harper Trust lies just south of the Mayo property. This is
the only one of these properties that is currently occupied. Mrs. Harper
is still living there. Mr. Harper passed away a short while ago. The
property is 36 acres that fronts Lake George and the southern part of
the property is wetlands: the northern part of the property is higher. A
portion has been changed to pasture and is overlooking the lake. There
is a single-family residence and a metal barn where equipment has been
stored. Bald cypress and black gum are the dominant tree species. A
small portion of the parcel is mixed forest. Live oak, southern
Magnolia, pignut hickory and cabbage palms are on the property and are a
good habitat for the black bear. It connects to the Mayo property and to
Lake George. Management of the natural areas will be minimal, especially
with the wetland areas. Management of the pasture will depend on the
future use of this piece of property. Committee members asked about the
structures.
Rob Walsh
indicated that the barn is metal and has 3 bays and is good to keep for
storage of equipment and is in good shape.
Carrie Stewart asked
when the County purchases properties that are being lived in and have
utilities like this one, do the people have an option to live there or
are they given a certain amount of time to move?
Rob Walsh indicated
that it really depends. You could have life estates. It is staff’s
understanding that it is Mrs. Harper’s desire to vacate the property.
Mr. McAlister was present in the room to represent Mrs. Harper in this
matter.
A Committee
member stated that, from
a potential liability standpoint, that the County would not want someone
living there.
Mr. McAlister
stated that the house could be sold within the neighboring area.
Anne Hallum stated
that the committee has discussed the idea of not wanting to get into a
home buying or structure-buying situation. If the price is $600,000 this
is partly because it has a structure on it.
Rob Walsh
stated that he did not know at the present as no appraisals have been
done.
Anne Hallum
stated that she wanted to make sure the committee doesn’t set
precedent.
Rob Walsh
stated that the county has bought properties in the past with structures
on them.
After discussion
of setting precedence on buying properties with structures on them it
was decided that it would be better not to set any precedence at this
time.
Mr. McAlister stated
that it is a divided mobile home and the building is 2 years old and
could be transported off the property. It is a nice house with a solid
concrete floor and something could be done with it.
Randy Sleister stated
that he would expect the appraisal would state the quality and type of
home and if it could be moved.
Carrie Stewart asked
if it would be feasible to let Mrs. Harper have the home.
Reid Hughes commented
that everything is negotiable. He asked if there were other questions
and if not, then they would continue on to the next property.
Harrington
Property
Rob Walsh presented
information on the Harrington property. This property is the bigger
property with 50 + acres. It is in 2 pieces and is divided by Bream
Drive. It abuts up to a mobile home subdivision. It is zoned rural
recreation as a mobile home park. Dominant habitat is mesic flatwoods
and large slash pines. Large slash pines dominate the overstory along
with laurel oaks. The remainder of the property is flood plain swamp.
Bald cypress and black gum dominate and the black bear habit is very
good. It connects to the Kilian property which connects to the Lake
George Wildlife Management Area.
Randy Sleister
stated that this site is why Pine Island has its name. It truly has an
island and pine is prevalent. The site will require some mechanical
manipulation and then reintroduce fire. A good educational campaign in
the neighborhood will be needed to convince the neighbors that it is for
their benefit as well as their safety and the environmental benefits.
4. Kilian
Property
Rob Walsh
continued
in this series with the Kilian property of 41 acres, zoned as resource
corridor. The habitat is flood plain swamp with bald cypress, black gum
and good habitat for black bear. The mobile home park is just to the
south of this property. Lake George Wildlife Management is to the north
and to the east and connects this property on two sides. Management is
minimal to non-existent. Periodic trash pick and monitoring of exotics
and invasive species will be needed.
Corbett Property
Rob Walsh
began by stating that this property is an in-holding of LGWMA and is
approximately 80+ acres. Scrubby flat woods is the prime habitat type
and the dominated tree is the slash pine and is good habitat for black
bear. Access is along Lake George Road and is good. The management will
be incorporated into the existing Lake George management. This is part
of the Type 1 wildlife management area with hunting and hiking allowed.
Reid Hughes stated
a motion is in order to accept the staff’s recommendation to authorize
these as a package designated on the "A" list.
Phil Maroney
made a motion to accept the staff’s recommendation and accept these
properties as a total as an “A” classification.
Carrie Stewart seconded
the motion.
Reid Hughes
asked that if there was any discussion or any public commend.
Alan Alshouse asked
if they would be submitted to FCT as 5 applications or 1 application.
Doug Weaver
stated the applications would be submitted to the SJRWMD and not FCT.
Richard Schuler
asked if they were determining eligibility or what is in the “A”
group?
Doug Weaver
stated that the committee already determined these as previously
eligible. There is the original “A” list. The question being asked
is if the committee is interested in adding these properties to the “A”
list?
Reid Hughes
stated there that, as there was no input from the public on this motion
a vote was in order. The motion passed unanimously.
Reid Hughes
stated The “B” list has no significant new facts except one. The
Kirton property is agricultural property and fits the Federal
Agricultural Farmland Protection Act and suggested that this be put on
the “A” list.
Dennis Bayer asked
if Southern Pines Plantation was being used for mitigation by DOT.
Doug Weaver stated
that Southern Pines was on the “A” list and was going from possible
acquisition to probable acquisition.
Rob Walsh
interjected that DOT had ordered appraisals on the property that were
due by the 25th of October.
Doug Weaver
stated staff has submitted an FCT application on this property but the
DOT mitigation effort is far better.
Dennis Bayer
stated that on the Kirton property, with the exception of matching
dollars, the other criteria on it has not changed.
Doug Weaver
stated that Kirton wishes a less than fee acquisition.
Reid Hughes
stated that the staff recommendation is to leave the others as is and to
move Kirton to the “A” list because of the Agricultural Act.
Doug Weaver stated
that there has been a Farm Bill signed by the President. There is money
available for farmland protection. The Kirton property may be eligible
for it but the property needs to move to the “A” list before staff
can proceed.
Phil Mahoney
stated there were environmental issues on this site and he understood
that this hasn’t changed.
Doug Weaver
stated that it is not a fee simple acquisition. Forever would only be
buying the development rights.
Carrie Stewart asked
whether there was a compelling need to move the Florida Audubon property
to the “A” list?
Doug Weaver stated
there was no interest in it because it is under water and there is no
partner at the present time.
Carrie Stewart
made a motion to move the Kirton Farm/Akins to the “A” list.
Dennis Bayer
seconded the motion.
Robert Williams stated
his concern about the Farmland preservation program being within the
focus of the Forever program. Farmland preservation would signal to the
public that Volusia Forever is the place to come.
Reid Hughes
stated that is the kind of property we want.
Doug Weaver
stated he was not optimistic that it is going to be a major part of the
program.
Dennis Bayer asked
what is the local match to bring this property rated 13th to the “A”
list in this program.
Doug Weaver stated
that this is a new program and the district has a 25% match and the
USDA is constrained by their national allotment.
Phil Mahoney interjected
that in a less-than-fee situation the owner would lose the developmental
rights to the property. That would not allow any public access or use.
Doug Weaver stated
that typically public access is not allowed.
Richard Schuler expressed
his thought that how much of the public knows or even considers it.
Doug Weaver
stated that it is just another option that you don’t have to manage
and is low dollar. It is not widely known but over time people will
become aware of it. If it is timber only it will not be accepted in the
USDA Agricultural program. It must be a ranch, cattle and timber.
The County has
consulted with the District concerning the Fore properties and the W.T.
Ranch acquisitions, which is approximately 1500 acres, in the Osteen
area. The proposed cost breakdown is 50% USDA, 25% District and 25%
County. The USDA told the District they liked the fact that the county
is part of the deal. Staff will bring these properties to this committee
in November. The ranch is mixture of pasture, forest, wetlands and some
substantial environmentally sensitive areas.
Richard Schuler
stated that he had experience talking to people that buy property 2 or 3
times and change their minds on how they want to use the land.
Doug Weaver stated
that the instrument would define how the owner uses the property. The
property owner is going to be in agriculture for a long time.
Robert Williams
asked if the deal falls through would this property get stuck there.
Doug Weaver
stated it is not fee simple. If it doesn’t make it, it goes down.
Richard Schuler it
is very important in the ranking because of the location. It is hard to
rank Kirton as an “A” list if you don’t have a comparison. We don’t
really know how good we are doing.
Dough Weaver stated
with the Fore property you will know.
Reid Hughes stated
there is a motion on the floor to move Kirton to the “A” list
Dennis Bayer stated
he would like the motion to state less-than-fee simple.
Reid Hughes
called for a vote. The motion passed with one no vote by Richard
Schuler. Mr. Hughes then asked for any comments from the public.
Mr. Mullins
stated that if you should choose to limit the properties he owned just
south of SR 44 or southeast of I-4 there is no objection from him if
that has any bearing on his situation. The committee chose to leave Mr.
Mullins’ property application as is.
Doug Weaver stated
that the acquisition cost of the Fore properties is approximately $3
million with the county’s portion being approximately $800,000. The
DOT effort is underway with Southern Pines and so the county is looking
at another 3500 acres in the near future and working on other
acquisitions. Staff is optimistic there are going to be other good
things coming to the committee.
Robert Williams
stated that the DOT has started their preliminary design environmental (PDE)
study for the SR 415 corridor and the turnpike and will be finishing up
their feasibility study for the limited access toll way somewhere
between SR 415 and Daytona Beach and Port Orange down to SR 417.
Reid Hughes
wanted to state that he thought there had been excellent staff work and
cooperation from the council. Thanks to the Committee for their good
work.
Doug Weaver
interjected that we had a wonderful team approach to this and hopefully
that will continue. Next week staff is going to visit the Acquisition
Restoration Council. They have agreed to put the 600+ acres of the
Spruce Creek expansion on their agenda. They are the gatekeepers on
whether the state concurs with acquisition.
Other Business
Reid Hughes
stated
his concern that the planning of DOT and the potential impact to the
Volusia Conservation Corridor can decimate some of the things we are
attempting to do and we can impact their planning by what we buy. As
citizens we need to take note and try to work together. The toll road
people are not working closely with others. It is a concern that we are
going to have to work together. With Montye Beamer as the Growth &
Resource Management Director and her desire to work closer with others
groups and staff should help.
Robert Williams stated
that he works with the MPO and they have been working with DEP
on SR 415. One of the things from the transportation function they
had to work hard to get the MPO board members to adopt was a resolution
to support the inclusion of a separate paved multi-use trail within that
corridor. He stated he also spoke with Joan Carter who is the trailhead
coordinating staff with DOT. He advised her that the SR 415 cuts through
the middle of the conservation corridor. The Volusia Forever committee
is accruing as much of this corridor as possible while DOT is putting a
four-lane road through the middle of this. Ms Carter has indicated that
she is willing to sit down and talk about wildlife under-crossings and
related items. DOT is still in the phase of designing that road and it
would be beneficial to write a letter to Mike Snider of DOT encouraging
him to work with county staff to look at potential acquisitions and
where they are going to be. They need to look at how to deal with
drainage and wildlife crossings. They seem to be open to this. Lonnie
Jackson is looking at the land use, which is conservation and
agriculture. BMS is doing the actual preliminary design and they hired
Glatting Jackson to do the community land use corridor.
Reid Hughes stated
that he had a meeting with Max Snider to discuss SR 415, and the toll
road people asked for a meeting with me as to my input on environmental
issues, which I gave them.
Carrie Stewart asked
if the MPO was still talking about four laning all of SR 415 or just
south of Osteen.
Robert Williams
stated it was SR 415 from SR 44 south to SR 46.
Carrie Stewart
said Big John talked about just four laning from Osteen to Seminole or
Orange County.
Robert Williams
stated that Big John talked about it at the MPO board meeting last
month. The traffic studies are the part of the corridor that really
justifies four laning everything south of Fort Smith. The PDE study
takes in the whole corridor of SR 46 to SR 44 and DOT is looking at it
as one project to four lane the road. DOT has the planning of the site
and it is their road. Six of the council members sit on the MPO board
and all of them supported it. They want to improve quality of life. The
roads fragment the system that you are trying to buy with Volusia
Forever money and the resolution is to try to defragment the system and
put in wildlife underpasses or whatever is needed.
Doug Weaver stated
that staff has met with George Lovett, who is general council for the
DOT 5th district, and he is also in charge of right of ways. He is
leading the acquisition of Southern Pines. We are letting DOT know that
we are in business and would like to have the opportunity to work with
them.
Robert Williams stated
they are on a time schedule and they have a contract in July to start
the PDE and wrap it up in the next year or so. I’m not sure about the
exact time schedule. DOT is doing it but who is going to pay for it? If
they say they will build an overpass in a part of the VCC we own would
we consider using part of the Forever money to help pay for a wildlife
overpass. I’m not sure the MPO would pay for it.
Randy Sleister stated
that the permitting agency intended to address that issue when they were
building these roads and they are looking at building three crossings on
US 92 with DOT money, not Forever money.
Doug Weaver
stated there is a land acquisition element to it because Southern Pines
becomes important from a habitat standpoint when DOT gets ready to widen
I-4.
Carrie Stewart asked
if they were planning a joint meeting with DOT?
Robert Williams stated
he thought it was a technical planning question. We could make a
suggestion that county and DOT staffs get together with MPO staff. The
key is to have staff sit down with consultants and people from District
5 DOT to state our future acquisitions.
Randy Sleister
stated that the underpasses are used a lot but the use of the overpasses
is still up in the air.
Doug Weaver
stated he expected to meet with DOT concerning Southern Pines before the
year is out and will be meeting periodically after that. It will be part
of our continuing effort. Originally the consultant asked us if we were
interested in participating with DOT on Southern Pines. We stated we
were interested.
Robert Williams stated
that what DOT is doing on SR 415 is preliminary design. They are looking
at preliminary design costs to build this road. If we want a wildlife
underpass or two this is the time to put it in the plan, not after the
PDE.
Reid Hughes stated
that we have a unanimous position to have staff work with the other
planning groups.
Anne Hallum asked
if the best we could do was underpasses for wildlife?
Reid Hughes commented
that Mike Snider said they were still doing their studies.
Doug Weaver stated
he doesn’t think this body is chartered to fund wildlife over or
underpasses.
Reid Hughes asked
if there were any other items to be brought up?
Anne Hallum stated
she brought up the 217 acres in Glenwood awhile back and there is
another hearing on Thursday and she will be attending. There is Dick
Schuler’s article in the paper about trails that made some important
points. There is a piece of property in Glenwood just outside of DeLand
and it would be acceptable to the public for trails. It is close to Lake
Woodruff. Next door is 300 acres and just down the road is another 200
acres. Mr. Green is the real-estate agent on the 200 acres and Volusia
Land and Timber Corp own the other two pieces. She presented a map to
staff. It is in the Wekiva corridor and is the only private land
breaking the corridor from Wekiva to Ocala. The total is 700 acres. One
side is residential and the other is government land.
Doug Weaver stated
he thought there was public land west of the railroad tracks.
Anne Hallum confirmed
that this was public land, but she doesn’t know if it is national or
district land. It is north of SR 44 and west of the railroad tracks.
Alan Alshouse
stated that the District has title to it and transferred management to
the Wildlife refuge.
Anne Hallum stated
that there is a populated area and on the District’s part is wetlands,
with the presence of black bear and bobcat. It is an ideal piece to
purchase for trails and is a link of a large corridor and close to an
urban area.
Reid Hughes suggested
a call to Rusty Robert at Congressman Mika’s office to tell them we
need some money to finish up this corridor. They are very good at
finishing corridors.
Doug Weaver
stated that staff has talked to the owners representative of the 217
acres in Glenwood and they are not a willing seller.
Rob Walsh stated
the last conversation he had with the owner was he intended on
developing the property.
Doug Weaver interjected
that depending on how the zoning case goes we may have another chance at
it.
Anne Hallum
talked to Ray Bunton. He said to have the staff come to him and they
might be interested.
Carrie Stewart interjected
she would like to have a color map as to: (1) what we have acquired, (2)
what we have done in the last year and a half, and (3) what is pending.
She stated she wanted something with the county outline on it so she
could use it to show to the public what the Forever Program is doing.
After discussion
of the present map and a proposed map, staff will provide the committee
with a better tool to work with.
Doug Weaver
stated that we don’t have the properties acquired because they are not
technically paid for. We don’t want to get into speculation. We don’t
want to mislead people. Menard and Plum Creek could be put on the map.
But we haven’t closed on some of the properties.
Carrie Stewart
would like to move the next meeting to Tuesday, November 19th at 3:30
p.m., if there were no objection. With no objection it was moved.
Meeting
adjourned at 3:40 p.m.
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